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FROM: Confirmation Do you know what it does [forwarded]

 
 
 
 
 

 

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Wednesday, October 23, 2013

 

http://marysaggies.blogspot.com/2013/10/do-you-know-what-confirmation-is-and.html

Do You Know What Confirmation Is And What It Does?

First off, the best place to start exploring Confirmation is to begin by exploring what both the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation are and are not.

Baptism is the first of the Sacraments of Initiation, that is, a Sacrament which cleanses our souls of the guilt (not the stain) of original sin, makes us partakers of the Divine Nature, brings us into the family of God (the Church), makes us sons and daughters of the Father & brothers and sisters of Christ, and it gives us sanctifying and actual grace. It is not complete in the sense that it doesn’t give us every grace we need to have a mature Christian faith. Rather, it is the gateway into a Christian and Sacramental life.

The Catechism describes Baptism in this way:

1213 “Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: “Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word.”

Baptism is not intended by Christ to do everything for us in the spiritual life, but to start the process of living a life bound to Him and the Church.

Confirmation is the strengthening process of the graces we already received in baptism. It is NOT just an affirmation of the person getting confirmed, as if it is about what we do – but more about what Christ does for us. Most Catholics believe it to be the other way around. They incorrectly view Confirmation as our “choosing Christ” and about our desire to be Catholic.

In reality, the traditional ordering of the Sacraments is Baptism – Confirmation – Eucharist. Only in the last 100 years or so has the process changed to have Confirmation come after Eucharist. But, there is a trend, in some areas of the Church, to reverse this.

In Vatican II, the Church taught the following:

“They are more perfectly bound to the Church by the sacrament of Confirmation, and the Holy Spirit endows them with special strength so that they are more strictly obliged to spread and defend the faith, both by word and by deed, as true witnesses of Christ” (LG, 11)

This teaching about how we become evangelists, full of the Holy Spirit, who go out into the world to preach and live the Gospel comes straight from the Bible:

“When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.” – Acts 8: 14 – 17

We see here that Baptism isn’t complete nor is it all there is. The laying on of hands (Confirmation) was needed for the completion of the Sacrament and the coming of the power of the Holy Spirit. This is what happens in Confirmation. It is the same thing that happened to the Apostles at Pentecost. Once they received the Holy Spirit they immediately went out and preached.

The Catechism states:

CCC, 1303 “From this fact, Confirmation brings an increase and deepening of baptismal grace:
– it roots us more deeply in the divine filiation which makes us cry, “Abba! Father!”;
– it unites us more firmly to Christ;
– it increases the gifts of the Holy Spirit in us;
– it renders our bond with the Church more perfect;
– it gives us a special strength of the Holy Spirit to spread and defend the faith by word and action as true witnesses of Christ, to confess the name of Christ boldly, and never to be ashamed of the Cross:”

So, in the sense that our Baptism isn’t enough to complete (but rather begin) our initiation into Christ, it isn’t enough. In the sense that Baptism does what Christ intended it to do (begin the life of grace) – it is enough.

Fr. Barron tells us even more

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    catholic answers forum working4christ2 with bill My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
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    #1 Report this Post to the Moderator
    Old Today, 2:57 pm
    Adamski Adamski is online now
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    Join Date: September 9, 2011
    Location: Seattle
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    Religion: Catholic (revert)
    Default “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    I had the most bizarre conversation of my life yesterday at Starbucks

    Ill start off by discussing how I met the person I talked to for over 90 minutes and it could have gone for ever if I didn’t need to go.
    “I See Things”

     

    About a month ago I was praying for a local Protestant church that is very anti-catholic
    Mars hill in Seattle.
    During praying the rosary I heard a voice say that I needed to go to their bible studies at their church. I signed up and went to one. Right away as I met everyone it was almost like I knew why I was called to be there. I sensed that a person I was talking to was a confirmed catholic. He was also the bible study leader. As the bible study progressed my thoughts where confirmed when the group leader said he was a confirmed catholic then he got into the occult and finally he was “saved” at mars hill.

    A couple of days after the bible study I called him to see if he would meet one on one because I wanted to here why he was a Christian and why he went to mars hill.

    Then yesterday we met at Starbucks ill briefly go into the part of our conversation that was very strange for me. Also he is extremely bright and works at Microsoft

    I asked him why he is a Christian
    His response was “the Holy Spirit confirmed it when I read the bible”

    I responded “last week I talked I talked to a Mormon and they said “the spirit confirmed the Book of Mormon, you both cant be right”

    His response “well I’m right and they are wrong”

    I responded “I’m a Christian because history, logic, science, and theology all point to it being true so because it is true I have no choice other to be Christian because I love and seek the truth”

    Then I asked “why did you pick mars hill over 38,000 different Christian choices”

    He responded “the spirit has guided me there because of the bible”

    I said “how do you know the bible is true unless you have a church to guide you as in 1 Tim 3:15, and further how do you know what books should be in the bible”

    I know he wasn’t just playing a joke on me he also got very angry at me when I told him how great the sacraments where in my life and showed him where the Eucharist and confession was in the bible

    Any thoughts on this??
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    #2 Report this Post to the Moderator
    Old Today, 3:31 pm
    billgeib billgeib is online now
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    Join Date: September 19, 2013
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    comparing the morman religion “vs” a christian is incorrect

    it is like comparing oranges and apples–

    that being said– really it is comparing catholic “vs” Christian

    Numbers 11:29

    New International Version (NIV)

    29 But Moses replied, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the Lord’s people were prophets and that the Lord would put his Spirit on them!”

    1 Samuel 10

    9 As Saul turned to leave Samuel, God changed Saul’s heart, and all these signs were fulfilled that day. 10 When he and his servant arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came powerfully upon him, and he joined in their prophesying. 11 When all those who had formerly known him saw him prophesying with the prophets, they asked each other, “What is this that has happened to the son of Kish?

    Acts 19

    “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”

    They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

    3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

    “John’s baptism,” they replied.

    4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied.

    Is Saul also among the prophets?”

    12 A man who lived there answered, “And who is their father?” So it became a saying: “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

    13 After Saul stopped prophesying, he went to the high place.

    finally because you have not experienced the “new birth” or born again- or born above–that christians experience

    So any thing he says you will not comprehend — because it is out side of your spiritual experience– and your catholic religious training

    Romans 8

    8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

    9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.

    14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
    1 Corinthians 2
    God’s Wisdom Revealed by the Spirit
    10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

    12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

    Colossians 2:8

    See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

    this is why being raised and taught a catholic — your understanding is going to be different

    than christians who are seeking a personal relationship with jesus with the promice of the Holy Spirit–

    Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message
    #3 Report this Post to the Moderator
    Old Today, 3:54 pm
    Adamski Adamski is online now
    Regular Member

    Join Date: September 9, 2011
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by billgeib View Post
    comparing the morman religion “vs” a christian is incorrect

    it is like comparing oranges and apples–

    that being said– really it is comparing catholic “vs” Christian

    Numbers 11:29

    New International Version (NIV)

    29 But Moses replied, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the Lord’s people were prophets and that the Lord would put his Spirit on them!”

    1 Samuel 10

    9 As Saul turned to leave Samuel, God changed Saul’s heart, and all these signs were fulfilled that day. 10 When he and his servant arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came powerfully upon him, and he joined in their prophesying. 11 When all those who had formerly known him saw him prophesying with the prophets, they asked each other, “What is this that has happened to the son of Kish?

    Acts 19

    “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”

    They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

    3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”

    “John’s baptism,” they replied.

    4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied.

    Is Saul also among the prophets?”

    12 A man who lived there answered, “And who is their father?” So it became a saying: “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

    13 After Saul stopped prophesying, he went to the high place.

    finally because you have not experienced the “new birth” or born again- or born above–that christians experience

    So any thing he says you will not comprehend — because it is out side of your spiritual experience– and your catholic religious training

    Romans 8

    8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

    9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.

    14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
    1 Corinthians 2
    God’s Wisdom Revealed by the Spirit
    10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

    12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.

    Colossians 2:8

    See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.

    this is why being raised and taught a catholic — your understanding is going to be different

    than christians who are seeking a personal relationship with jesus with the promice of the Holy Spirit–

     

    There are currently 38,000 different Protestant denominations all using sola scriptoria as their rule of faith and all claiming to be right……. Only two choices are possible
    one is right and 37,999 are wrong or they are all wrong……

    Also I may have been baptized when i was young catholic but knew very little of the Catholic Church until I was 34 after spending 7 years at evangelical churches seeing how from a logical perspective Protestantism and sola scriptoria is set up for failure and that was what lead me to the Catholic Church
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    Old Today, 4:05 pm
    Randy Carson’s Avatar
    Randy Carson Randy Carson is offline
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adamski View Post
    I had the most bizarre conversation of my life yesterday at Starbucks

    Ill start off by discussing how I met the person I talked to for over 90 minutes and it could have gone for ever if I didn’t need to go.

    About a month ago I was praying for a local Protestant church that is very anti-catholic
    Mars hill in Seattle.
    During praying the rosary I heard a voice say that I needed to go to their bible studies at their church. I signed up and went to one. Right away as I met everyone it was almost like I knew why I was called to be there. I sensed that a person I was talking to was a confirmed catholic. He was also the bible study leader. As the bible study progressed my thoughts where confirmed when the group leader said he was a confirmed catholic then he got into the occult and finally he was “saved” at mars hill.

    A couple of days after the bible study I called him to see if he would meet one on one because I wanted to here why he was a Christian and why he went to mars hill.

    Then yesterday we met at Starbucks ill briefly go into the part of our conversation that was very strange for me. Also he is extremely bright and works at Microsoft

    I asked him why he is a Christian
    His response was “the Holy Spirit confirmed it when I read the bible”

    I responded “last week I talked I talked to a Mormon and they said “the spirit confirmed the Book of Mormon, you both cant be right”

    His response “well I’m right and they are wrong”

    I responded “I’m a Christian because history, logic, science, and theology all point to it being true so because it is true I have no choice other to be Christian because I love and seek the truth”

    Then I asked “why did you pick mars hill over 38,000 different Christian choices”

    He responded “the spirit has guided me there because of the bible”

    I said “how do you know the bible is true unless you have a church to guide you as in 1 Tim 3:15, and further how do you know what books should be in the bible”

    I know he wasn’t just playing a joke on me he also got very angry at me when I told him how great the sacraments where in my life and showed him where the Eucharist and confession was in the bible

    Any thoughts on this??
    Burning in the bosom v. led by the Spirit…Different lingo…same process.

    However, it could well be that the Spirit did lead the guy to Mars Hill but he can’t express it very well. OTOH…

    I think you did well. Think he will meet with you again?
    __________________
    Tiber Swim Team – Class of ’79
    RESOLVED: I will spend my time here explaining and defending the Catholic faith with charity and clarity; otherwise, I will remain silent.
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    Old Today, 4:06 pm
    benjohnson’s Avatar
    benjohnson benjohnson is offline
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    Join Date: May 16, 2012
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    Adamski, you have a lot of vigor for your faith! Keep it up!

    Franlky, that your debating companion got frustrated just by the subject alone indicates that you really must have struck a chord. I pray that he seeks the Eucharist in God’s time.

    Quote:
    one is right and 37,999 are wrong or they are all wrong……
    Why yes… one is right! That would be the LC-MS
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    Old Today, 4:08 pm
    dronald dronald is offline
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adamski View Post
    There are currently 38,000 different Protestant denominations all using sola scriptoria as their rule of faith and all claiming to be right……. Only two choices are possible
    one is right and 37,999 are wrong or they are all wrong……

    Also I may have been baptized when i was young catholic but knew very little of the Catholic Church until I was 34 after spending 7 years at evangelical churches seeing how from a logical perspective Protestantism and sola scriptoria is set up for failure and that was what lead me to the Catholic Church
    I don’t like this way of thinking. Different cultures will equal different styles of worship which in turn will bring along different Churches and styles of Churches. Our core Trinitarian beliefs are what hold us together no matter what, and most Protestants accept that all of those Churches can be saved through Jesus Christ, as do Catholics.

    I don’t see where the separation is.
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    Old Today, 4:52 pm
    billgeib billgeib is online now
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adamski View Post
    There are currently 38,000 different Protestant denominations all using sola scriptoria as their rule of faith and all claiming to be right……. Only two choices are possible

    one is right and 37,999 are wrong or they are all wrong……

    Also I may have been baptized when i was young catholic but knew very little of the Catholic Church until I was 34 after spending 7 years at evangelical churches seeing how from a logical perspective Protestantism and sola scriptoria is set up for failure and that was what lead me to the Catholic Church
    i sorry– i guess you missed the point-

    there is a educational component that is different between the belief systems,

    of catholic and christian

    this is not a debate on what you perceive as the difference of the denominations

    as Saint Paul said if you have the Holy Spirit you are different than those who do not have it

    some christians also use mark 16

    15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

    i hope this has cleared up what the comparison is–

    and this comparison is a reason why many people leave the catholic demonination and seek out what might be called a spirit filled denomination, or christian assembly

    you don’t have to get defensive on this– so you believe he ‘s wrong– that in it self won;t matter to a christian who is spirit filled
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    Unread Today, 4:55 pm
    Adamski Adamski is online now
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benjohnson View Post
    Adamski, you have a lot of vigor for your faith! Keep it up!

    Franlky, that your debating companion got frustrated just by the subject alone indicates that you really must have struck a chord. I pray that he seeks the Eucharist in God’s time.

    Why yes… one is right! That would be the LC-MS
    Well if I weren’t Roman Catholic I’d have to consider your tradition
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    Unread Today, 4:56 pm
    Adamski Adamski is online now
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Randy Carson View Post
    Burning in the bosom v. led by the Spirit…Different lingo…same process.

    However, it could well be that the Spirit did lead the guy to Mars Hill but he can’t express it very well. OTOH…

    I think you did well. Think he will meet with you again?
    I’m going to text him right now and ask
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    Unread Today, 4:58 pm
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    SteveVH SteveVH is online now
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dronald View Post
    I don’t like this way of thinking. Different cultures will equal different styles of worship which in turn will bring along different Churches and styles of Churches. Our core Trinitarian beliefs are what hold us together no matter what, and most Protestants accept that all of those Churches can be saved through Jesus Christ, as do Catholics.

    I don’t see where the separation is.
    Interesting. So is it your view that the doctrine of the Trinity is the defining belief of a Christian? How did you arrive at such a belief?
    __________________
    “Let the time come when those who should oblige the servant of God, do the contrary to him, and what degree of patience and humility he has then, that is the degree he has and no more.” – St. Francis of Assisi
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    Unread Today, 5:07 pm
    billgeib billgeib is online now
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    Default Re: “My Holy Spirit is right yours in wrong”
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Randy Carson View Post
    Burning in the bosom v. led by the Spirit…Different lingo…same process.

    However, it could well be that the Spirit did lead the guy to Mars Hill but he can’t express it very well. OTOH…

    I think you did well. Think he will meet with you again?
    thank you randy — after seeing how many posts you have–

    it is interesting to see your miss understanding

    of being led by the Holy Spirit “VS” the Mormon burning in the breast wittness of the authenticity of joseph smith as a prophet

    they are comparing apples and oranges–

    but you believe other wise– oh well–

    i don’t know how well you function in the prophetic–

    i only know of 1 roman catholic priest that has been successful as a type of evangelic teacher–

    but at the moment i can’t remember his name–

    but he does teach , instruct and educate people in how to hear the voice of God and to walk in the fullness of the Spirit– with signs and wonders–

    but i’ll get back on it– and you can view his u tube training seminar info, and make your own evaluation

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